So, you have all now read several readings concerning the social construction of genders, and now more specifically the construction of masculinity. I would like you to discuss what you make of these readings and the film Tough Guise. Following are some video clips and quotes to add to the conversation and a few questions to get you started. I would like everyone to please post one question (with your name attached), and then you may post longer responses anonymously or signed. Please feel free to draw on your personal experiences to help fuel this discussion and add individual perspectives.
In addition, I would like you to please look over the comments from the last post. Consider what implicit judgements are being made in the observations of gendered behaviors. Where do these judgements come from?
Another area of discussion is the social construction of gender itself. Consider the We'Wha article, Transgender Warriors, any relevant video clips we have watched, and the Gender Aptitude Quiz you took (which some students felt was in itself too restrictive in its gender choices). What are you left thinking after all of this? How do you feel about it?
So here are two video clips: one from Michael Kimmel (who wrote the article on masculinity as homophobia), and an excerpt from a Jackson Katz lecture (which addresses our previous experiment quite nicely).
To add to the Kimmel video, here is a quote from an article he wrote about his own son in 2003:
Personally, I'm optimistic. Not long ago, Zachary and I were playing a game we call "opposites." You know the game. I say a word, and he tells me the opposite. They're simple and fun, and we have a great time playing it. One evening, my mother was visiting, and the three of us were walking in our neighborhood park playing opposites. Scratchy/smooth, tall/short, high/low, fast/slow. Then my mother asked, "Zachary, what's the opposite of boy?"
My whole body tensed. Here it comes, I thought, Mars and Venus, gender binary opposition, all the things I have been trying so hard to avoid in child-rearing.
Zachary looked up at his grandmother and said, "Man."
Here, at last, on planet Earth, there's one small voice that knows we're not from Mars and Venus, after all.
Some questions to get you started:Okay, now you add your own questions and comments. A bit later I'll be putting up our class (combined) results from the survey I gave last week, which you should look at but you only need to comment if you want to. We will discuss it as a class as well.
- What changes have you noticed since the Tough Guise video that are worth noting? Are men still getting more muscular and guns getting bigger? How are men represented in the media?
- Considering the above quote and clip as well, how are fathers represented in the media? Give us examples.
- Thinking of our experiment from last time and the clip above from Katz, why do you think girls and women sit the way they do and boys and men sit the way they do? What are the underlying reasons behind these social constructs?
- In the readings on masculinity, what hit home for you? What felt true based on your own or loved ones' experiences? What felt untrue?
- Can you think of examples of homophobia being a requisite part of masculinity?
- What stood out to you in the We'Wha reading? What knowledge might we gain as a society from this kind of anthropological essay?
After watching the Tough Guise video, I realized that it was not only the girl images that were getting smaller waists and bigger boobs, but also the guys images getting the more masculine look. You can see men being represented in the movies getting more and more muscular and manly. On the learning activity I did, I chose to watch Aladdin as one of the children's movies. After the movie my one roommate was looking at facts about the movie trying to figure out who sang when she came across trivia facts. One of the facts actually said that the first Aladdin cartoon character made looked like Michael J Fox, but as the film developed they didn't think he had enough sex appeal for women so they "beefed him up to look like Tom Cruise."
ReplyDeleteFathers in the media today, in my opinion, are getting a lot more credit for being good fathers. If they are helping theirs wives out and staying in with the kids its looked at in a positive light. I think this only is going to improve in the years. I thought the clip above about fathers really summed it up.
The clip above about how men and women sit differently was interesting because it was so true. I think that the underlying reason behind this is that we were socially trained when we were younger to sit and act like this that it doesn't even seem strange anymore. I actually remember driving to church one morning when I was really young with my brother and sister. I was sitting with my legs crossed and my sister was sitting with hers slightly out, how a guy normally would. My brother was the oldest at the time and told my sister to stop sitting like that because she looked like a boy. I think little situations such as that are why we have the social constructs we do today.
I thought the masculinity as a homophobia had many good points. One thing from the article I remember was the part where the young boys would ask the others to look at their fingertips and if they would look at them in a masculine or a feminine way. I think boys are scared (when with their other male friends) if they will appear to be masculine enough. The author of the article, as well as the Tough Guise video we watched, mentioned that guys will act tough in front of friends but in front of a woman, when alone, they will take down their shield. I couldn't agree more.
The film Tough Guise made me realize that the "ideals" for men AND women are beoming more and more unattainable. The standards on what constitues an "attractive" female or a "real" man are constantly progressing, and as they do, the more impossible it will become for anyone to live up them. The film really put this in perspective for me, especially when they showed the progression of the size of guns and muscles of a period of time, not just in people and actors but in action figures as well! Now even boys at a young age are shown what they're "supposed" to look like and aspire to bel ike when they grow up so they will be accepted as a man in today's soceity.
ReplyDeleteFrom the readings about women's body images, especially It's a Big Fat Revolution and The Body Politic, I realized that as the ideal's for men's bodies are to become bigger and bigger, the ideals for women's bodies are to become smaller and smaller. These essays, one being about accepting fat women as attractive and the other being about a woman bcoming so obsessed with creating the perfect body image that she almost died of anorexia showed me how ridculusly dangerous our soceity is becoming by pushing the limits of these ideals far beyond what is actually attainable for any human. what I found even more ridiculous, is that in The Body Politic, the girl went to the mall and had her body fat % measured and as a woman of 5'9 at age 25 weighing 99 pounds, the guy conducting the test actually PRAISED her for this, when it is clear to any person that that is nowhere near healthy and she looked on the brink of dying, yet she was applauded for this.
Sure the film Tough Guise shows the radical transformation of the man and woman over the past few decades, but I feel it gives us more reasons to be different from the set norm. Why conform to what is shown on t.v. We don't live in Hollywood we live in Ohio, far enough away from the harsh criticism of people and media figures right? Nope, somehow, hollywood consumed our nation and brainwashed us all. Fascinating i think, but also very sad, how easy and gullable we all are to a little man talking on the screen plugged in the way. I say unplug that shit and start living your own life. But hey thats just me, im just as guilty as anyone else who has watched entertainment hollywood and listened to dumb celebrities lives play out. WHo cares, we need to get our minds out of the gutter and focus on ourselves and each other.
ReplyDeleteAnyways, the clip above talking about fathers then and now was kinda depressing. I think it is great that young men know think that love will make it all work, but how do we know for sure? Everything is so different anymore and there are so many opinions about everything, you think the only left that is original is love. Well i sure hope that is true for the sake of all of us. But hey i guess we'll all find out!
I had watched Tough Guise in my sociology class last year so I knew what it would entail and I had the same opinion then as I do now.
ReplyDeleteYes the media "brainwashes" men to think they have to be big, strong, tough..all of the stereotypes. The media also brainwashes women to think they should be attracted to these kinds of men. However, the image of both instances is changing. Skinny boys wearing girls' jeans is now popular. Zac Efron is the hot new guy for girls who are boy-crazy, and he has long shaggy hair and isn't the bulkiest guy in Hollywood. Does this give the image that girls should be attracted to this new "hotness"?
I think no matter what the media portrays, your heart and true feelings will tell you who you are attracted to, whether it be physically or personality wise. I prefer the meat heads for some reason...I don't know why because I haven't had the best track record with them but for some reason I'm just not attracted to a guy who doesn't like to work out and eats stuff like hummus and celery (although there's nothing wrong with hummus!). The bottom line is, we feel what we feel, we love who we love and I don't think the media has anything to do with it.
I thinks men are still being portrayed the same way. They still feel like they have to be tough, have big muscles and not be emotional. Fathers are portrayed by the media as the head of the family and the one who make all the big important decisions.
ReplyDeleteI think that women sit the way they do because they have been taught that they have to be lady like and appear feminine so that men will find them attractive. Men sit kind of sloppy because they think they have seem tough and like they don't care so they sit how ever they want.
It's important to make sure that we give ourselves credit for how far we've come. In the above video he said that the next generation of men will expect their wives to work full time and be devoted to her career, but I believe we are already in that generation. And have been for some time. I would contend (without any proof however) that most of the students in our class had 2 working parents while growing up.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing that troubles me is that I am forced to look at this subject through the goggles of context. By this I mean it is difficult for me to imagine inequality in the future, with the steps we have made.
My question is this: In 50 years, when our grandchildren are looking back at the way we were, what about us will they think was outrageous that we don't even notice today? (for example, 50 years ago women who worked were expected to make a fraction of what men made).
To address the issue of fatherhood, I believe this is another area where we have made ridiculous strides. The media has recently been portraying fathers as sensitive caretakers right alongside mothers. The main movie that comes to mind for me is The Pursuit of Happyness. In that movie Will Smith is struggling to take care of his son and himself and shows moments of profound vulnerability.
In watching Tough Guise i it is very sad that men feel that they have to live up to this "standard" that is portrayed to them from the media. Women have this same obstacle though. We have to wear high heels, be put together, and be skinny the same way that males have to be tough, straight, and muscular. Brainwashing is a part of the media and most people fall into its path unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteBody images has changed over time, and after reading the articles regarding them its semi scary. The ideals for mens bodies are getting bigger and bigger and more muscular while women are expected to fit into the smallest pant sizes that are out there, which are getting smaller as time progresses. Its scary to see that even as education is getting better, eating disorders are more prevalent for females. And males are putting foreign drugs into their bodies so that they can get "huge" or have their bodies look that of body builders.
My Question is: In years down the road do you think that body images will continue down the road they are headed, or reverse so that women will be full figured and males feel no pressure to be muscular?
I also had seen the "Tough Guise" movie in sociology class. I would agree that the media encourages men to be big and strong because women are supposed to be attracted to that. In the end it is up to us whether or not we follow what the media wants us to follow. In chapter 6 of the hooks bell book, it discusses how women need to break free from the image that the media portrays. It explains how women in the 60's were supposed to look beautiful at all times. Women were supposed to wear certain clothes and make up in order to be a true woman. Eventually women broke free from this view. Women finally valued inner beauty over outer beauty. Hooks bell discusses how women are now starting to fall back into the "media spell". Women and men must break free from the media and develop their own independent views.
ReplyDeleteAs for the video talking about how women will one day be expected to value their careers as much as men. I agree with Doug that we are already far into that transition. I think it is much more common to have both parents working. For instance my sister is married and has a 9 month old boy. She teaches full time and her husband works full time as well. Most of the families nowadays have parents who both work whether it being part time or full time.
I definitely think men and women have changed their apperance in the media drastically. The men are being portrayed much more beefier and you see so much more workout commercials. Women seem to be two different types in the media. Either really physcially fit and having that really toned muscular body or extremely thin like the models are now. There really isn't anymore commercials or anything in the media portraying that extra curvy women are what you need to be.
ReplyDeleteAs for men realizing the importance of fathering, I think now a days men have been portrayed as great dads and are doing a great job at it. I definitely don't think the majority of dads are clueless on how to manage their time with their family. But then again I've grown up in a town where I see a bunch of great fathers, so there is probably much worse out there and still a numerous amount of clueless men. But I do agree that there has been a drastic change with good fathering.
I've always wondered why women just automatticaly have better posture than men in public places. I honestly think its just because of stereotypical men and women that people feed off of. I think women don't want to be portrayed as acting like a man when they sit like them because they want to be respectful and considered "a lady". I think men just sit the way they do because theyve grown up sitting like that and thats the only way they feel comfortable, plus no one really judges them the way they sit like they would a woman if she sat like that.
I really liked the article on masculinity becuase I could definitely relate to it in certain ways and it's true that thats really how things are when it comes to sports and men. It hit home for me because I did so many sports when I was little and my dad was always backing me up and then I just kept trying different sports and eventually I was doing 5 different activities all the way through high school. I knew if I wouldve quit something that was really important to me, my friends and my family that I would get dissapointment. So even though I'm a girl I could definitely relate to all those young men and their stories. I know that things are the same but different now because there are much more choices for men now then there was back then. Such as, either being in sports or being a druggie.
I'm just curious if any of you know about any high school's out there that still have that type of reputation??
I think the theories of homophobia are somewhat true. I definitely think that men are afraid of other men unmasking them.
I really liked watching the Tough Guise movie. There were alot of interesting ideas brought up in the movie. I think that the movie was dead on about how men are represented in the media. In movies they show men with big muscles and guns. They are represented as being super macho with no emotions.
ReplyDeleteI think that the modern day dad is more involved with his family and raising the kids. The Kimmel video had a good point that dads are getting more advenced, they are finally understanding what it means to be a family man. It is going to be interesting to see how a family operates in twenty more years when dads become even better at being a father.
The clip about how men and women sit differently is very funny. I think that the way women sit is dead on but the part about men is a little extreme. When I sit on a bus im not falling off the seat, I'm just trying to be comfortable.
The Tough Guise movie was very interesting to watch. As a woman, I think there are certain standards to live up to, but I never really consider the standards men must live up to. The media promotes these images by always having strong, tough guys as the good guys and the guy everyone wants to be. I think this image has reduced somewhat in the past decade, but it is still an unachievable image.
ReplyDeleteI watched Tough Guise in my Sociology class so I have already been exposed to this topic prior to womens studies. Overall though I believe that men are now slowly begining to lose the tough guy stereotype. Emotions are now becoming more outwardly noticable and the whole tough guy front is becoming obsolete. I was actaully watching a show today called Tool Academy and they seemed to be making fun the whole tough guise. These men were the rambo stereotype and were actually being ridiculed for it.
ReplyDeleteSociety has begun to shift gears and open to men actually becoming vulnerable. Through our readings of masculinity I have begun to examine my own family. My dads' father was the A-typical male who was career Navy. My grandfather was extremely set on discipline. It is funny how my fathers generation is so much different from his fathers generation. I can absolutly see everying evening out and the Guise faultering to the wayside.
I do however think that these articles are stressing to much on the negatives of sports. Sports as a whole are great ways for allowing people to socialize and be active. I believe that the cons are far out weighed by the pros and that in todays obese society we should stress sports even more heavily. I do agree with the points about how sports can create the tough guise which means sports are not the problem, its the individuals incharge of running them.
I think the ideals for both men and women are getting more and more unattainable everyday. Women are supposed to be thin, successful, and lovely. Men are supposed to be muscular, powerful, and secure. Honestly, how many people out there have succeeded in fulfilling all of these (and are still happy)? I feel like the media's portrayal of men and women is narrowing when it should be expanding. Like on the Tough Guise video when they compared the burly action figures today with the anatomically normal ones 30 years ago. It's as if the media is saying it is no longer acceptable to be average size.
ReplyDeleteOR... are men threatened by women's increasing freedom and authority? Are they trying to assert their dominance by taking up more physical space than they used to? Is the media portraying overly dominant male images to try to maintain the current gender roles? Is this just a manifestation of men's increasing concern about their position in the hierarchy?Unfortunately I don't have an answer to these. I can only hope I am not right and am interpreting them incorrectly.
I guess my main question is when did the extreme become the ideal average?
My question is, do you think that the increasing rates of childhood obesity are negatively affected by the overwhelming extemes of how the ideal body should look. Or, do you think that this only contributes to low self-esteem, making it harder to for children?
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed the Tough Guise movie. It really opened my eyes that there is indeed a lot of pressure put on mens bodies as well as womens. I already knew that throughout the last 50 years the ideal woman was getting skinnier and skinnier; however I was not aware that the ideal man was getting bigger and more muscular.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that I found interesting from Tough Guise was just how much pressure is put on boys to be tough.I never realized just how this affects the way in which men act. I also couldn't believe that almost 90% of crimes and that sort of thing are commited by men, and that it all goes back to how boys being raised to be tough and not sissys. I think society would be so much better off if boys were not raised to be so tough. I think the world would be a much better and safer place if these tough standards on boys were lowered.
I had seen the Tough Guise movie once before but I really didn't mind watching it a second time because there were more characteristics of men that I hadn't caught onto before. I think women are analyzed, criticized, and talked about all the time with weight and looks that it was nice to see the critiquing focused on a subject that doesn't receive so much critical attention: men. The information was very useful and insightful.
ReplyDeleteI also think the readings are very interesting. Even though I usually hate sitting down to read all of them, once I'm finished I realize I can see different topics from a different light because I've never experienced 'fat as beautiful', 'anorexia', 'masculinity as homophobia' or any of the other topics we read about.
My question would be: 'Do guys agree with the material discussed in the film? What is their perspective when they are the ones finally being critiqued?'
It’s interesting that most references to sensitive men, including the posts on this blog prior to mine, are in a fatherly context. The implication here is that fathers are encouraged to be sensitive—but single, young, men are largely excluded from this discussion. And if they are included, it’s assumed that they are small, girl-pants-wearing men (like mentioned in one of the above posts)—or simply put: they are feminine.
ReplyDeleteThe videos and articles about the construction of masculinity are very important, but none of them, nor the video “Tough Guise,” discuss, in length, how hard it can be for a man to live outside these constraints. Being an average-built, heterosexual male, who doesn’t like sports (let alone knows how to play them), and who takes on some aspects of femininity is not easy. To onlookers, being gay might make some of these attributes easier to excuse, or being stereotypically emo might make these things more acceptable—but is there room for other men here? Being a common guy, yet rejecting much of traditional masculinity in favor of many traditionally feminine attributes is difficult and requires constant justification.
Once assuredly justified, however, most people will let it pass. The interesting thing about this, though, is that in order for a man to reject masculinity, he must do so with an unquestionably confident assertion—traditionally masculine attributes.
So I pose the question: Can a man reject masculinity (and perhaps assume some femininity) in a non-masculine way, but still be seen as a man?
-Bryan Fulk
Since the video I have noticed that men are getting bigger and guns have definitely gotten bigger. People don’t really think anything of it when men do something wrong, but if a women does, its headline news. But the good news is it seems like we have come a ways since them for the better, we just have a long way to go still.
ReplyDeleteBeing a father seems to be more and more accepted today. It is kind of expected that both parents play some role in their kid’s lives. I feel like a lot of times when you see dads in the media it’s usually when they are at a sporting event or something like that. It seems like now with the economy being so bad that it’s not unheard of to hear of someone’s wife going back to work after her husband looses his job.
Some guys are pretty casual and laid back. A lot of guys don’t really care about what other people think, they just want to be comfortable, so they sit down and relax. A lot of women on the other hand when they are in public transportation going somewhere are a little more uptight and proper.
-Brian
I had never seen the "Tough Guise" movie before despite the fact that we had talked about topics such as this in previous sociology classes. The question that I have regarding the film is, I agree with a lot of the research that the professor was saying, however is he reading too in depth with his research? And is there any such thing as too far in depth?
ReplyDeleteMen's gender identity or the restrictions society puts on what classifies them as men has become more and more narrow. And I believe that the media reflects those restrictions and qualifications strongly through all sorts of media facets.
ReplyDeleteHowever, whereas women struggle and fight their gender restrictions mostly in the public eye or more vocally, men's internal struggles are largely ignored. Thus, men's "tough guise" image becomes more and more extreme and no one is there to stop it.
Regarding the masculinity readings I believe those thoughts and statements are men's steps toward breaking out of their gender restrictions and becoming more comfortable as their own person.
The Tough Guise movie was very enlightening. I pretty much agreed with everyone he was saying about men and violence and male portrayal in the media. I feel like the 'maco man' look in the ledia is still the big, burly, muscular guy but smaller men are being accepted into the mainstream. However, a lot of the time, these smaller men have something else working for them, like a super power or something. Personally, I don't understand why physical strength and appearance is so important to what it means to be masculine. As if a man isn't truly a man if he doesn't fit some mold. In the sports reading where many men from different backgrounds gave persoanl accounts of childhood, most of them said sports were all there was to do if you were a boy. That leaves no hope for boys who didn't like sports, or ones who weren't all too great at them. Does that make them lesser men? I don't think it does. As for the above clip about men being equal parents, I found it very interesting. You always see women in the motherly role in commercials and media but very rarely do you see men doing the same types of roles. I feel that's because it was thought that men doing these things were less masculine, and what type of role model is that for a young boy? This may be all linked back to the idea of the homophobia reading. Maybe these men had feelings that one could see as 'feminine' but suppressed them so they were not 'outed' as sissies or wusses. In the Tough Guise video, most of those men were most concerned with other men seeing them as 'fags'. This, I think, is what homophobia is; having another male 'out' you.
ReplyDeleteI think the Tough Guise video is further proof that there is almost as much pressure on guys to be muscular as it is for girls to have that lean, supermodel like body (according to society norms). Being muscular is bigger than ever, especially with all of the new supplements being advertised all over the place. They make you feel like if you're not ripped then you are not a real man. Another thing that stood out to me was how many violent crimes were done by men. I expected it to be a majority, but over 90% is just ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteTough Guise I found very interesting in that when I was growing up I was taught that some of the masculinity extremes depicted here were the idea vision of being a man.I had not noticed though until this film how the characteristics of feminine and masculine characteristics have become more and more exaggerated through the years. I would like to know how many people actually have realized this fact for themselves.
ReplyDeleteI had also seen the Tough Guise video in my sociology class a few quarters prior to this so it was somewhat of a refresher watching it again. While I want to believe that most people who see men and women being portrayed like that should know hours of makeup and heavy amounts photoshopping go into creating those figures; but then I realize the people who buy into that stuff are the ones who make manufactures put warning labels on everything. I guess it could go with the anti-intellectual in America argument to not really question the images which are widely portrayed in our culture.
ReplyDeleteI can’t say I watch much TV to accurately say how fathers are being portrayed in media. Though it seems like social views of only having a working father and a mother who stays at home are fading; while the view of both parents holding a job and the father playing a more active role in raising the kids is becoming more common.
I guess my question is, how long will it take for a broader audience to begin to see these extreme bodies as complete misrepresentations of a human, and the media’s portrayal of them begin to be scaled back to more natural sizes.
After watching the film Tough Guise I found myself to be rather shocked that the unattainable figure that they came up with for women, barbie for example, is just as bad as the figure that they came out with for men. Because I'm a female I never really took notice of the guy dolls. I had no idea that there was a doll that had bigger biceps than Hulk Hogan. I mean come on, thats a little ridiculous. I also found myself to be rather offended by the quote Howard Stern said in reference to the Columbine School Shooting. Absolutely 100% inappropriate.
ReplyDeleteMy question is can these doll figures get any worse? I mean they came out with a pregnant barbie selling it without a Ken. Is that the right imagine that we want our kids to have growing up? Theres nothing wrong with a single mother raising her children but shes pregnant, thats slightly different.
First of all, that YouTube video above was funny. That man made some great points. But you know what is really interesting(yet disappointing)? I watch these YouTube videos, read the articles on blackboard, watch those movies in class and say to myself "Wow! That is so true!" at the time; however I find myself walking out the door and once again oblivious to it all...it's like subconsciously I know what is going on, but I don't analyize it in reality because I'm just "livin' life". Does anyone else feel the same way?
ReplyDeleteThe Tough Guise video was extremely insightful though. It made me want to text all of the males in my phone and tell them to take off all of their masks. I have never really thought about the pressures that they have to go through when it comes to society. Throughout the film I was debating whether it was "attacking" the male gender or not, but it was absolutely right in stressing that "masculine violence is so normal that it has become invisible".
I know the video covered an immense amount of key points, but I guess this question remains: How can we as a society seriously reduce this violence? How long will it take?
My final point has to do with the Gender Aptitude Test. It made me realize that although I have always believed that one was either a "man" or a "woman", I guess when it comes down to it (and according to my results) I don't believe in gender.
The "Tough Guise" film really came off with the stereotypical manly man persona. I think although it's a single-minded perspective, it is rather true. Guys are supposed to be bulky and buff, and girls are expected to be skinny and slim within our society today. However, there are still women who have the "tuff" mannerisms whether it is accepeted in society or not.
ReplyDeleteMy question is, why do you think it is common for people to raise money for women's shelters and safe homes; but we never hear of men's shelters or safe places. They do exist, but why do women have more options rather than men. Do you think this is because society views women as the victims in many situations? What about the men who get victimized by women, is that fair to men?
After watching the Tough Guise video I found it interesting the way that men have been portrayed over the years. The GI Joe doll for example as a way of showing what a male body should look like. It does seem to be exactly following the way that people view males as a whole. I think that it is ridiculous how men now think that they have to have the huge muscles and women think that they have to be extremely thin. These types of stereotypes that the media are presenting to us need to be looked at as extreme and not realistic. If the media and other companies looked at males and females realistically then maybe people in general would have an easier time accepting who they are and not judge others on how they look or act.
ReplyDeleteTiffany Tyree said...
ReplyDeleteI thought that the Tough Guise video was an accurate portrayal of what men do to show and prove their masculinity. It uncovered the truth as to why men act a certain way toward other men and the impact that the media has on men's image of themselves. Since the video, I feel as if men still continue to put on" fronts" to prove that their real men and that this is just something that's going to continue for years to come. The media still continues to represent the ideal man as strong, muscular and tough. However, there are "average looking Joes" who get media attention and star in big movies and television shows. I think that it's all about your mindset and whether or not you're going to let yourself buy into society's opinions. The one article entitled, Masculinity as Homophobia, I think fits with this movie because men are trying to prove their masculinity to other men. The article was stating that masculinity was men's fear of men and how men are afraid of humiliation. Many men act different around women than they do around men. Why is that? It's because men don't want to be called a "sissie" around other men. They want to be recognized as a figure of importance and power in the eyes of other men. I really don't know if this "tough guise" can ever be resolved but men can take a step at accepting themselves for who they are point blank.
I had seen Tough Guise in two other classes, English with Gender as the topic and a class called Holocaust Lit. that dealt with race, sex, and genocide. I think the film is interesting because it brings light to the fact that men are under extreme pressure from society. For years the topic of women being under pressure from society and the media to be a certain weight and dress a certain way has been publicly discussed and debated and the fact that men are under a very similar pressure is often overlooked. I think that recently it has become more popular for men to look differently than the socially constructed "masculine" look of G.I. Joe and Rambo. Skinny jeans and long hair are widely accepted as normal. I also think it has become more acceptable for women to look differently than Cosmo and Vogue previously would have had us feel we needed to look,with women like Jennifer hudson and America Ferrera gracing their covers. I think the film points out major flaws in society but I also feel like it's a process and we are making progress.
ReplyDeleteAfter watching the "Tough Guise" movie, I completely agreed with the idea that the media degenders violence. Our society just doesn't get that the media shows kids killing kids instead of boys killing boys/girls. We need to fix this problem from the roots. I think we are making what it means to "be a man" way too seriously. Some boys just cannot handle the stereotype and crack. That's where school shootings and accidental gun shootings come from. We are not noticing, or maybe just don't care that much, that it's the males who are doing the most killings. If we stop the problem early, it will also stop boys from growing up and performing acts like domestic violence. This leads to my question: How can the media begin letting us know that that males performing violence is a terrible act, instead of just a "manly" act.
ReplyDeleteI think that the Tough Guise video was very interesting. I think that the idea of men getting bigger and women getting smaller is still happening and if not it has stayed consistent from what it was at the time of the movie. I did the magazine option for the Learning activity and I looked at Men's Health. Almost all the ads and the articles were about weight lifting or supplement ads and the men pictured were huge and ripped. Also during the video they mentioned that Marilyn Monroe used to be the picture of feminine beauty and was a size 8. I believe she was one of the first women to be pictured in Playboy and now in the popular show "The Girls Next Door", Hugh Hefner's girlfriends are all tiny, probably a size 0 or 2.
ReplyDeleteAlso I thought it was interesting in the movie when they mentioned how people would have liked John Wayne, a violent American cowboy in the movies, to be president but instead they settled for Ronald Reagan who had many of the same qualities and ideals that an old-fahsioned cowboy would have. It was really surprising to me how far we have come from a president who was against alot of the human rights movement to Barack Obama who is all about change.
In regards to the We' Wha reading the thing that was most interesting to me was that he obviously didnt fit into any of the genders, male or female, of our society. The berdaches were considered normal and even given more respect then just the regular Native American citizens. They were the first people in our country and in 2009 he would probably be discriminated against instead of respected.
My question relating to the Tough Guise movie and articles we have recently read in class based on males having to live up to certain standards is that do all men and boys feel like same way about these "standards" that society says a real man must live up to? Some men (who most likely probably do fit the stereotype) probably do not believe that the pressure put on men by society is neccesarily a bad thing. We should hear different perspectives from different builds, races, sexualities, etc. of men.
ReplyDeleteWhile watching the tough guise video i found my self agruing with it and siding with him that us men are brought up to be tough guise taught not to show emotion not to cry, but by the end he had lost it for me. The trick of making a great agurement is not losing creditiblity or taking stabs in the dark. for example rambo fighting a black man represents the white man beating down the blacks... ARE U kidding me!!!! so let me get this straight rambo fighting a boxer that resembles ali which is considered the best boxer of all time shows him beating down the blacks instead of beating a image that people associate with boxing? so when he fights the russian is that because of the cold war and our struggle against the russians?
ReplyDeleteThe tough guise mentality was breed into me from day one of my life. I come from a miltary family and we have all heard the saying "pain is weakness leaving the body" well i was taught that mentality. But at the same time i was also shown that u cant bottle up your feelings and u need to express them. It a delicate balance of being "tough" and able to express your feelings and thats the mentality i agree with. I dont believe men should be "soft". nothing bugs me more than a soft guy.
with anything in america we tend to go from one extreme to the next so i am interested in seeing how we react to the reshaping of "men" will there be a role reversal? Will we overcome the NATURAL evolutionary embeded thought process men are born with to be the alpha male from millions of years of strugle and survial where evolution made us stronger in order to survive to protect our tribe our family?
abby to answer your question from my point of view as a white male. We do feel a growing sense that we have to meet standards. we all talk about how women feel that media makes them feel they have to look a certain way size 2 to 4, tan, make up etc.... Well men feel that way too. media makes us feel like we need to be persay tall dark and handsome. Magizines movies show us how we need to be fit lean muscluar a real man and thats how we feel. its not only women that feel like they have to be something. we feel the same way. From talking with many adults specialy female adults they have noticed the shift and pressure put on men. that more than ever do we need to be a certain way to be attractive.
ReplyDeleteI feel that there are actually two ways men and women are being portrayed. On one end I do think that men are shown as huge muscular agressive characters in the media and women are dainty big breasted helpless characters and the stereotypes continue to intensify.
ReplyDeleteHowever I also think that there are movies, shows, and images that are begging to show how men and women really are in the real world. Movies and the media are showing men who are emotional, and women who are proud of their curves. I think that it depends on where and what you look at.
I however do think that the majority of ideals portray the tiny stay at home women and the burly tough men, but these are stereotypes that will never be broken.
o yeah and in all the rambo movies he breaks down and shows his vunablity that he does have emotion. its funny how u can always spin something to make it work to your advantage and make somethin into something its not. aka some of the stuff talked about into tough guise
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Is it possible that the female gender is persuading men to act like the men in the "Tough Guise" video?
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting how Michael Kimmel explained how men are finally getting used to the feminine rights progression. I do think even in my generation or next generation will feel that women are and can be equal to men. I don't see that it will pose a problem in the future.
I also feel that the idea of the men in the "Tough Guise" video is slowly regressing only because it has become more socially acceptable to a more feminine man (at least more acceptable than 20 years ago).
I have not read everyone's comments, but I want to post a quick comment. Remember that media analysis and cultural studies (which is essentially what Jackson Katz is performing in Tough Guise) is not so much about revealing the ways that media brainwash us, but about analyzing media as a reflection of our culture. If these are the images and stories our culture is producing, what does that say about our culture as a whole (not necessarily what does that say about individual men and women). On the other hand, individuals working together do come up with these images. So, for instance the changing image of men's muscularity in Hollywood reflects some change in the culture. It may also help to facilitate that change, but the change in the culture is there also. It is not solely created by the media. They are in relationship with each other. I hope that makes some sort of sense. So, it is wise to watch media critically regarding the messages you choose to accept, but also critically regarding why those messages are being sent in the first place.
ReplyDeleteI knew before watching the Tough Guise movie that men also have a standard to live up to, but I didn't realize it was that bad for them. I think the Wizard of Oz analogy was good, that masculinity is a pose/act that men try to hide behind. I also thought it was interesting how all of the high school boys said all real men were physical, strong, powerful and tough...all of the same things we came up with in class. Lastly, about the video one thing really surprised me. I knew stereotypically most violent crimes are committed by men, but I didn't realize how true this actually was. Also, I never noticed the emphasis they put on women if they ever commit crimes. They used the example how in the paper it always says, "woman raped" and not "man raped women". Although I think the image of men and women is still a problem, I think that overtime all different body types are becoming more and more acceptable.
ReplyDeleteI also agree a lot with what Kimmel said in his short video. I think that although the media still continues to show men and women in opposite roles, there has also been a lot done to close the gap. I think this gap will continue to get smaller and smaller as younger generations see both of their parents working and sharing roles in the house.
I think girls are taught to sit gracefully so as to perpetuate the ideal of a delicate being who is seen rather than heard. Men assert themselves by taking up as much space as possible (Much like the idea of having the right to take up space mentioned in "The Body Politic").
ReplyDeleteSomething that I've seen that bothers me in media today is the stereotype "bitch" character. The bitch isn't book smart, but she can tear you apart with her words. Think Regina George: she's beautiful, respected, powerful, and slutty. Girls who have beauty have power. The girls want to be them and the boys want to sleep with them - but she's a life ruiner.
Through middle and high school I was fully convinced that I should try as hard as possible to transform myself into The Bitch. Perpetuating her image in the media will only continue the cycle onto the next generation of mini-Bitches (remember the end of Mean Girls?).
One could argue that today's tweens idolize Hannah Montana instead of Regina George, but is she really any better? She hides her brown curly hair under a straight blonde wig. She always gets into trouble and she has a southern accent (just kidding...).
Let's give young girls a role model who they can become. Someone who cares about her family, is passionate and creative, and gets good grades because she wants to live up to her potential, not just to be recognized by her parents or her peers. Not every little girl can grow up to be a secret rock star, but every girl CAN work hard and develop a personality.
My question: Will today's pop culture ever produce a worthy role model?
I had seen "Tough Guise" last year in my sociology class. I think when I saw it the first time I was more surprised about what was in the video then I was this time which kind of bothers me. Just becase we have seen these things before doesn't mean they should be okay the more and more we are exposed to them. I don't understand the whole tough guise thing because, being a girl I don't think it is totally about us finding someone big and strong. I think most girls want someone who isnt afraid to show their true feelings, who is okay with expressing themselves in fromt of his friends and who is even okay being sensative at times.
ReplyDeleteI think that these ideas about men and other ideas about how women are supposed to look are just unattainable. One problem with that, is that making such extreme ideals for the "perfect" man or woman is the more unattainable they are the more people get let down by themselves. I feel that women that are used in magazines, music videos etc give young girls that though that thats how they should look and when they realize they cant be that skinny or have that big of boobs they only become depressed.
I didnt really realize that men have the same standards to live up to as women. I always had the idea that it was more men creating their thoughts and images about how women should look and that was what we are trying to live up to. It was weird to watch "Tough Guise" again and realize that its almost just as bad for men.
I think that as far as in the media we still see that dad image where he is the hero. He is the one who sticks up for the family and works hard to take care of everyone and everything. I think this is more common because it is true that men feel they are "the man of the house" and they are supposed to be taking care of their families. In my house it has always been a team effort. Mom and Dad work hard and take care of the family and are always there if they are needed. I had thought that the whole "image" thing was improving over the past several years, but now Im second guessing myself.
I think there is a class and education difference in how influenced young men and women are by media representations of masculinity and femininity. While it is true that men are depicted as being bigger and more violent, it is also true that more fathers are staying home. This is mostly true in upper middle class homes and families.
ReplyDeleteOn another note, when the Tough Guise video talked about guns getting bigger in recent years, I was reminded of the trailer for the latest James Bond film, Quantum of Solace. The last shot of the trailer is Daniel Craig appearing on top of a hill holding an impossibly large (I think!) gun as the movie title appears. Phallic imagery aside, the James Bond films are excellent proof of how one character and series of films has become more violent over the years. At the same time, previously nonsentimental characters like James Bond and Bruce Wayne have recently been given more emotional depth and a background for the insensitive things they often do.
This was my first time seeing the Tough Guise video. It really opens people's eyes to the fact that not only women are affected by media stereotypes. The movie made me start thinking about the "typical male" action movie. Each movie keeps getting bigger and better. There is always more violence, more gore, more explosions, more chaos, more realistic, and more acceptable. When I think about what children now are watching, it's hard to think how they might grow up, and what they might expect out of life. To see things so real portrayed to them, how can they not think this is how things are supposed to be?
ReplyDeleteThe "Tough Guise" video that we watched in class provided a different outlook on the messages that the media sends to the public.
ReplyDeleteI had always thought that women struggled more with issues concerning body image, but this movie was able to suggest that men feel the same way. Perhaps they are not as vocal about it, or do not let it affect them as much as women do. This is probably because many times men are taught to hide their emotions.
On the other hand, watching the movie, "Killing Us Softly" had a different impact on me. I can actually say that it made me sad, whereas the "Tough Guise" video did not. I think it is because I can really relate to what many of the girls on the video have talked about.
I identify with the idea that when girls are little, they feel like they can do anything. Then one day, that all changes and many girls start to reevaluate everything they had once wanted.
My question is, at one point do young girls start to change from confident, independent young girls to insecure, unsure young women and why?
-Mary Panaggio
The Tough Guise video really demonstrated certain expectations that pertain to men in society. As much as women are placed in certain molds, and looked at a certain way, to an extent men suffer this same fate. The video really demonstrated how men feel the need to be strong and physically built. It talked about movies such as Rambo, where the main character is extremely ficticious. I feel that most people realize this, yet society still praises these false idols.
ReplyDeleteThe readings on masculinity re empasized this point. Men are not supposed to exhibit 'feminine' characteritics. If they do, it is considered weak. This brings up the point of homophobia, and how certain men feel threatened by men who are not into the convential football game.
I found the statement of boy being opposite of man, refreshing. It is a very solid answer and does not demean a gender in the process.
HP brings up a good point that class plays a part in how the tough guise manifests itself. Katz brings up several times working with working class boys who are putting up this front. It is interesting to think of it as manifesting in different ways for different groups of men. My spouse is a stay-at-home dad and middle-class and college-educated. His version of the tough guise is still figuring out how to show hurt emotions rather than just anger. And dealing with how others perceive him as a stay-at-home dad. In many ways he got more respect from other men when he was a cable-installer.
ReplyDeleteIt was very interesting to watch Tough Guise. I never realized that as women are encouraged to lose weight and become sexually/visually appealing to men, men are also being pressured to gain muscle and become larger. However; as women are encouraged to "impress" men, I think that often times men get stronger to impress each other and not necessarily the opposite sex.
ReplyDeleteAs Ashley brought up above, if men portray any type of feminine characteristics they are strongly judged by men. As a female, my best friend is a male and he is very meticulous about the way he looks and how he dresses. To most women he would appear to be "metro-sexual" but men and even some women believe that he is homosexual (just because of the way he dresses!) As much as women have to watch what they wear and how they appear, men are also working to become the typical guy. This video helped demonstrate this fact.
I think that everyone should be different in there own ways and if everyone conformed to be just the same as everyone than the world would be a boring place.
ReplyDeleteI think that by watching the tough guise movie I am now more aware and observant of males being stereotyped. I have always just heard the womens side of the story, but never really realized how much this happens to guys too. I think that since men are so the norm and (as in most of the readings, they have talked about, a white heterosexual man is the best you can be,) its easy to overlook the criticism and stereotyping men receive as well.
ReplyDeleteI think that on both sides of the gender stereotyping help cast the mold of what society views both genders. For example its easy for men and women to look at a picture of Hedi Klum and think she is gorgeous, but when a picture of Brad Pitt comes up, men are hesitant to express their opinions. This is where the whole gay/lesbian thing comes into play. Not only is it frowned apon or sometimes not even acknowledged, but men are so less open about their sexuality, that its hard to think of men being influenced by the media the same way as women are.
We cast these gender molds in society, every man should look like Brad Pitt and every girl like a supermodel, which is easy to categorize straight men and women in, but where do the gay/lesbian/transgender come in? This is where society is hesitant to "stretch the mold" and make room for the people that "dont fit" our mold that society has made for us. So cast aside these people who live in the same world we do feel as they dont belong. In our past readings we hear of an even further mold stretch: black lesbians and gays. If it is hard for society to even be comfortable with a gay white man, when are we ever going ok with a black lesbian woman?
Its hard to say where these gender roles are taking us. Dr. Kimmel said that just recently men are on the same page women were 20 years ago about fatherhood. Something that happens specifically to them, when can we expect people to be on the same page as homosexuality no matter what color.
In no way am i just blaming this exclusion on men, but it seems that in the past men are the last ones to speak up about something that doesn't seem right to them.
I think that in order for our society to accept what is different, we need to be more aware of what is happening. Be more exposed to homosexality and transgenders. This way it meshes into the norm and becomes ok to talk about. Its no longer a secret and people who actually are homosexual dont have to hide in a closet, because they will be comfortable enough to say how they feel, instead of living in fear. I know that this will never happen overnight, but if little by little more and more brokeback mountains and ellen Degeneres' come into our main stream, all of our culture will be able to live in a world with no stereotypes.
Before watching the Tough Guise movie I always knew that men were the subject of violence in films. However, I did not realize that it was as common as it is. In movie after movie we were shown that it is almost a right of passage for a boy to use violence in order to prove himself and become a man.
ReplyDeleteWith this youtube clip I think that possibly the speaker is reading too much into how men vs. women sit. I know personally that I don't sit like that on public transportation when I visit large cities. Most of the time I am the one that offers my seat to women on the subway or bus. While there probably are more males that are the ones taking up lots of space on a train or bus, I just don't think that it's as big of a deal as he makes it out to be.
This was the second time I have seen the tough guise video, I really didn't think it was accurate. They seem to focus so much on violence and abuse, which though are major problems in teens and youth, are not as large of a group as the video made it out to be. I also didn't like the video of the differences in sitting, I find it hard to believe that a regular guy would take up extra room to prevent someone especially a woman from sitting down
ReplyDelete